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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.29 15:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
I appreciate the effort involved in changing a long standing feature of the game but I do not understand why the war dec mechanic even exists.
PvP is available in this game in low-sec and null-sec for those that choose to travel to those locations. Just because some people want to bully the little guy, the carebear, someone who just wants to log on and make stuff, how does that make the war dec system justifiable?
If I enjoy mining and industry, why should I be forced to train up combat skills to defend myself, or sit in a station afraid to undock, or even spend my hard earned isk on hiring mercenaries or enlist people into my corp to 'protect' me while I play the game my way?
Are you going to implement a game mechanic that forces people in 0.0 to mine and manufacture and train the relevant skills?
Why don't you remove the war dec system completely and see what solutions the playerbase come up with to harass those that want no part of the "you have to pvp or else" mentality? You will probably be suprised at the ingenuity.
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Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.29 16:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
gfldex wrote:You are aware of the fact that you can make more ISK mining in 0.0 do you? Margin are much better there as well.
I don't play this game to maximise my isk/hour ratio, I play to have fun doing activities I enjoy.
gfldex wrote:
What exactly are you whining about? You can completely opt-out of wardecs by staying in NPC corps or you can go to 0.0 where you don't care about wardecs.
I am pretty sure I didn't whine at any point in my post.
The main point of my thread was based around this question:
Quote:
Just because some people want to bully the little guy, the carebear, someone who just wants to log on and make stuff, how does that make the war dec system justifiable?
Nobody in this thread has given (in fact I doubt nobody can give) a valid reason as to why the war dec system sxists, except to grief people.
I am a firm believer in non-consensual pvp, it is the backbone of the game but the war dec system does not promote an environment of non-consensual pvp, all it does it single out the weak and the small who are trying to make ther mark on the game.
If non-consensual pvp is what everyone wants, removal of the war dec system would mean that the bullies using war decs to kill industry ships would have to move to low-sec or null-sec, which would mean they would be on an even footing with people that are capable of fighting back. |
Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.29 16:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yiole Gionglao wrote:Please, i have a question! If i am in a miner corp and someone wardecs us solely to prevent us from playing the game, how exactly can we avoid being at war and keep playing w/o surrendering to blackmail or dismantling our corporation? Thank you in advance! 
You can't, don't worry about it though, the bullies and griefers will get what they want, that's how eve works, remember. |
Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.03.29 20:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Dirk Space wrote:Quote:
Just because some people want to bully the little guy, the carebear, someone who just wants to log on and make stuff, how does that make the war dec system justifiable?
Nobody in this thread has given (in fact I doubt nobody can give) a valid reason as to why the war dec system sxists, except to grief people. Wardecs where introduced as a compromise of another compromise. The latter is the existence of CONCORD. In the very beginning there was no CONCORD nor station guns. As undocking could take you longer then 30 sec to load the scene (the servers nowadays are brilliant compared to what we used to have) and as a result cunning individuals farmed noobs, actions had to be taken. Instead of solving the problem to get out of a station without getting blown to smithereens CCP decided adding some NPCs that stop such attacks would be wise. It was for sure easier (read: faster) to implement. Since EVE was (was!) centered around non-consentional PvP the wardec system was added to the game to allow corps in highsec to fight over resources. Yes, you are supposed to fight for what you own. That may even mean you have to work together with capable players. That's why wardecs are there. The comfort zone that highsec became with the privateer-nerf was never meant to be there in the first place. Now that will be fixed. And demanding the game to be easy, no matter for that char age, is whining. Esp. if there are very viable options for your to opt-out of combat against players. You seam to have problems to understand what grief play really is: here a incomplete list. Driving your little corp out of business (read: make your members join proper corps instead) is not griefplay by any means. You are solo? NPC corps are your salvation. If that means you can't have that ISK printing machine that is your highsec research POS, we will be fine with that. More money for those who can actually defend their business. (Or have friends that can.)
Thank you for giving the answer I was waiting for.
War decs were implemented for a reason. That reason no longer exists. War decs are now just a tool to grief and bully people that are not able to field sufficient numbers, strategies or tactics to deter such behaviour. They are an outdated mechanic that holds no place, except for those intent on causing hurt and suffering on others.
Remove war decs completely, people will adapt. |
Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.03.29 20:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
I do apologise for me carping on about this but I am struggling to comprehend why we are arguing about the subleties surrounding the mechanics of war decs when it is obvious that the whole system needs removing. After a review and a suitable replacement is designed, then it should be implemented.
It doesn't matter how much we talk about changing the costs, or large corp deccing a small corp ratios, it is still a broken mechanic. |
Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.03.29 20:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Dirk Space wrote:War decs were implemented for a reason. That reason no longer exists. Last time I check CONCORD was still there.
It is obvious you enjoy utilising the war dec system in eve. I am sure it empowers you by forcing your will on other people so that you can dictate your gameplay style on others who are unable to match your 'prowess' in pvp.
It may suprise you to hear that I have never been war decced. I have never had to hide away because of the big bad bullies picking on me.
There is something that I have that you seem not to posess and that is the ability to see other peoples point of view.
Try looking at the picture as a whole, a bit of blue sky thinking, and see where war decs actually play a part. |
Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.03.29 20:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Takoten Yaken wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:gfldex wrote:Dirk Space wrote:War decs were implemented for a reason. That reason no longer exists. Last time I check CONCORD was still there. Last time I checked suicide ganking of hapless noobs, miners and the whatever was still in place without no need for harmful unescapable wardecs. And It took years until suicide ganking ships as much as lose their insurance payback... lookin forward to deccing you nonstop Tried to tell you Inda, squawking birds tends to get noticed.
Threats, in my game?
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Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.03.29 20:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Dirk Space wrote:There is something that I have that you seem not to posess and that is the ability to see other peoples point of view. I do very well see other peoples point of view but I don't feel bound to have to agree. Esp. in a computer game. It's sad to see that you retreat to insults when you are out of arguments.
Awfully sorry to have to ask but could you please bold the insult? |
Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.03.29 21:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Keras Authion wrote:And finally risk-free griefing. Let's say I have a second account with a suitably skilled character in a one-man corp. I can dec another corp, say the small corp of friends up there, a 10 man industrial, for 25 million per week. I just need to stay docked and type a few lines in the local every now and then to force the other corp to stay docked. I effectively make it impossible for them to play without it affecting my main's ability to function. I'm sure the 10 people appreciate paying sub for staying docked. Now eventually they will start doing whatever they usually do when I take no action and I can go get their juicy stuffs with a small investment of 50 million or so. The small corp got 3 options: - ignore you - join an alliance to increase your war free to a few billion - move all members to a new corp - stay in NPC corps and move production assets to an alt corp If you are able to play on an alt, so are they. Nobody can force a war onto a player.
But the question remains, why are you war deccing that corp (player)?
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Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.03.29 21:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
I am sure I can answer that question... |
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Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.03.29 21:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Avila Cracko wrote:
In 99% of the cases corp/person is war deced because you know that they/he cant defend itself, because you want to ruin his game because he is not playing it the way the way you want it to.
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Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.03.29 21:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
I bolded for emphasis. |
Dirk Space
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.03.29 21:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have no war stories, it's not how I play this game.
If someone has a problem with me, I talk to them and make sure I understand why they feel that way then come to a mutually acceptable solution.
Having a mechanic in game that allows people to destroy the enjoyment of others, on a whim, and that is all war decs are, should be removed.
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